A/CAM Model Expo Club Display for 2023

[hrtpaul]

Question, is a A-1J "SPAD" eligible? Reason I ask in the "Sandy" role it flew Combat SAR to escort "Jolly Greens" which would pick up shot down aircrew over Nth Vietnam, Laos and even Cambodia. A typical CSAR mission would involve at least 4 x "Sandys" and 2 x "Jollys" or "Super Jollys" plus lots of fast jets and tanker support all depending on just how far north the aircrew went down.

CSAR maybe too much of a stretch for the display, but some of the most incredible examples of bravery and self-sacrifice have occurred in this mission type. It was the Sandys as the on-scene commanders that coordinated the pickup and when the area was pacified, they'd call in the Jolly/Super Jolly. In this video (linked below), one can see the smoke screen the Sandys would lay down to help hide the Jollys from anyone shooting at them from the ground.

Sandy story here:

https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0306sandy/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFWEaNJxnW4

I'd reckon a Spad is a bit of a stretch there mate purely because they weren't doing the rescuing. That's kinda like me chucking a Phantom etc on the display just for being involved in the mission. I think the Jolly would be fine though as it actually did the rescue. Just my 2.2c worth

[Adam the Akrodude]

Question, is a A-1J "SPAD" eligible? Reason I ask in the "Sandy" role it flew Combat SAR to escort "Jolly Greens" which would pick up shot down aircrew over Nth Vietnam, Laos and even Cambodia. A typical CSAR mission would involve at least 4 x "Sandys" and 2 x "Jollys" or "Super Jollys" plus lots of fast jets and tanker support all depending on just how far north the aircrew went down.

CSAR maybe too much of a stretch for the display, but some of the most incredible examples of bravery and self-sacrifice have occurred in this mission type. It was the Sandys as the on-scene commanders that coordinated the pickup and when the area was pacified, they'd call in the Jolly/Super Jolly. In this video (linked below), one can see the smoke screen the Sandys would lay down to help hide the Jollys from anyone shooting at them from the ground.

Sandy story here:

https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0306sandy/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFWEaNJxnW4

I'd reckon a Spad is a bit of a stretch there mate purely because they weren't doing the rescuing. That's kinda like me chucking a Phantom etc on the display just for being involved in the mission. I think the Jolly would be fine though as it actually did the rescue. Just my 2.2c worth

It's a bit of a stretch agreed, but the "Sandys" were the on-scene commanders and coordinators of the rescue attempt - not just supressing the bad guys. They also laid down the smoke cover using WP and the rearward ejecting smoke bomblets (SUU-14A/A) to allow the Jollys some hope in not being shot down during the pickup attempt - that didn't always work. Sandy pilots had four radios to coordinate between aircrew on the ground, Jolly/Super Jolly, fast movers, etc. SAR is done differently when there are bad guys who shoot back.

One A-1 "Fat Face" SPAD actually did rescue a shot down fellow SPAD pilot earning the pilot the MOH - the incredible story of Maj. Bernie Fisher, the first USAF pilot to receive the MOH whilst still alive. https://www.afhistoryandmuseums.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Article/719897/maj-bernard-f-fisher/. Fisher's A-1E now resides in the USAF museum.

I guess I'm trying to make a point that the Sandy mission was a SAR mission - it just had the added complication of being in combat.

[hrtpaul]

I'm fully aware of what the mission entails mate. Did they (Sandy's) do the ACTUAL rescuing? Except for that 1 exception, nope they didn't. Does a RAF Sea King or a USAF HH-60G/W qualify? Hell yeah cos they did the work. The way I see it, you're clutching at straws with this. It's basically just semantics but whatever. Not my call so I'm out.

[tor lives]

Gentlemen.....I will attend to this when I can.
I am rather busy at the moment, dealing with 1:1 Search and Rescue issues.
TOR

[Adam the Akrodude]

Doesn't need attending to, not a issue - more a talking point as such discussing the combat side of SAR in the past.

[tor lives]

For the purpose of our display.....Jolley Greens and Super Jolleys yes, absolutely.
A-1s.... no, as they are not the primary SAR platform.
TOR

[Adam the Akrodude]

For the purpose of our display.....Jolley Greens and Super Jolleys yes, absolutely.
A-1s.... no, as they are not the primary SAR platform.
TOR

All this is purely as a discussion - nothing more.

Understood and agree from a theme/display aspect, but the Sandys were the primary on scene CSAR platform - first on station as part of the SAR effort and were the on-scene SAR commanders/coordinators. They were the "Nemo" except with guns and smoke bombs/grenades, even later had the ability to drop food/water & survival radio batteries. Sandys had to escort the Jollys/Sper Jollys, locate the downed aviators, establish contact, coordinate the whole rescue effort, supress any bad guys either by themselves or calling in other assets and once the area hopefully pacified (it most often wasn't), call in the Jollys. Sandys ran the on scene CSAR effort. The Jollys & Super Jolly were half the story - the rescue half, not the search half.

All good, but the Sandys and all they did won't be forgotten. Here's a pretty good article on how CSAR was done in S,E,Asia and how it's done now. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/airman-down-19013581/

[erussell]

My understanding from a previous thread is that there will be no ACAM display at Expo 2023. Please correct me ASAP if I am wrong here.

[tor lives]

My understanding from a previous thread is that there will be no ACAM display at Expo 2023. Please correct me ASAP if I am wrong here.

Correct Ed, it is planned that our displays will resume again from next year.
TOR

[hrtpaul]

A good showing in the civvie category tonight already