Invasion of privacy at Airports now?

[BradG]

We're not talking about them, we are talking about someone just sitting in the airport, reading the paper and drinking a coffee.

We are actually. Absolute certainty that many of the 9/11, Seville, 7/11, Bali, etc, etc, "someone"s were doing exactly that on their Recce day/s before their "missions" and even on "The Day".

True, but I don't think any of the hijackers were wanted or really known before the attack. Thus even if one had been identified, what do you do with that information, do you check there is an out standing warrant, do you check the list of known terrorists. Do you check interpol? How long would all that take? Do you detain someone until you do all these checks?

So imagine someone is sitting in the airport, cop asks what their name is and it's 'Dave Smith'. Great, now what? Is that person now detained without suspicion until all these lists have been checked for Dave Smith? What if there are 2 on the list, is there a picture? Do you then need to take a picture and check that? Honestly I don't know, but I keep questioning the effectiveness of this new law.

[BradG]

Adam tl;dr

Ray- you wanted people using the site, you can thank me at Expo...

[Ansett A330]

I still pose the simple question; how will random ID checks make commuters safer?

See my answer above. Geez Brad it's like giving someone the answers to an Exam Paper and they don't take any notice of them and go their own way and then complain like buggery when they get 0%.

While there is nothing like someone stirring the Pot in this case in the absence of you or anyone else telling me you have specific practical experience like TOR and Graeme and Wayne I shall always defer to their Assessment and Judgement of the situation.

[Ansett A330]

We're not talking about them, we are talking about someone just sitting in the airport, reading the paper and drinking a coffee.

We are actually. Absolute certainty that many of the 9/11, Seville, 7/11, Bali, etc, etc, "someone"s were doing exactly that on their Recce day/s before their "missions" and even on "The Day".

True, but I don't think any of the hijackers were wanted or really known before the attack. Thus even if one had been identified, what do you do with that information, do you check there is an out standing warrant, do you check the list of known terrorists. Do you check interpol? How long would all that take? Do you detain someone until you do all these checks?

So imagine someone is sitting in the airport, cop asks what their name is and it's 'Dave Smith'. Great, now what? Is that person now detained without suspicion until all these lists have been checked for Dave Smith? What if there are 2 on the list, is there a picture? Do you then need to take a picture and check that? Honestly I don't know, but I keep questioning the effectiveness of this new law.

Brad, Brad, Brad, Brad, Brad ...

(Which in case you don't know is from "5 Whys" which is one of many Root Cause techniques which some Security Forces use to nail the bad guys ...)

[Ansett A330]

Ray- you wanted people using the site, you can thank me at Expo...

Ah ... the real reason why the Pot is being stirred!



NOT!!!

[BradG]

I still pose the simple question; how will random ID checks make commuters safer?

See my answer above. Geez Brad it's like giving someone the answers to an Exam Paper and they don't take any notice of them and go their own way and then complain like buggery when they get 0%.

While there is nothing like someone stirring the Pot in this case in the absence of you or anyone else telling me you have specific practical experience like TOR and Graeme and Wayne I shall always defer to their Assessment and Judgement of the situation.

No I read your answer, it's wasn't bad but I was hoping for more specifics. No stirring the pot intended, actually I think it's great we can have opposing points of view yet still discuss things without vitriol or personal name calling.

I'll give you an example; I support sniffer dogs because they can detect potential bomb making chemicals. That's a specific job a sniffer dog does to keep one safe. Or I support the use of body scanners as they can detect a potential weapon that could be otherwise snuck on board. I was hoping someone closer to aviation than I could say; I support random identification checks in airports because *specific reason it adds to aviation safety*.

Edit - honestly didn't know it would be a 4 page discussion. However, it is a discussion forum, Ray wanted more posts and more activity or he was going to shut down. I accept thank yous in form of coffee, kits or cash

[Ansett A330]

I accept thank yous in form of coffee, kits or cash

OK Brad will supply all three when I make it Melbourne however you do realise I will require Photo ID first and maybe even your original Birth Certificate too just to make sure it really is you.

[BradG]

I accept thank yous in form of coffee, kits or cash

OK Brad will supply all three when I make it Melbourne however you do realise I will require Photo ID first and maybe even your original Birth Certificate too just to make sure it really is you.

Ah see now you're onto something. If police offered a free coffee and cake with every ID check, there'd be a line...

[Adam the Akrodude]

We're not talking about them, we are talking about someone just sitting in the airport, reading the paper and drinking a coffee.

We are actually. Absolute certainty that many of the 9/11, Seville, 7/11, Bali, etc, etc, "someone"s were doing exactly that on their Recce day/s before their "missions" and even on "The Day".

True, but I don't think any of the hijackers were wanted or really known before the attack. Thus even if one had been identified, what do you do with that information, do you check there is an out standing warrant, do you check the list of known terrorists. Do you check interpol? How long would all that take? Do you detain someone until you do all these checks?

So imagine someone is sitting in the airport, cop asks what their name is and it's 'Dave Smith'. Great, now what? Is that person now detained without suspicion until all these lists have been checked for Dave Smith? What if there are 2 on the list, is there a picture? Do you then need to take a picture and check that? Honestly I don't know, but I keep questioning the effectiveness of this new law.

I think you'll find that at least some of those evil scumbags involved in 9/11 were on a FBI watch list, but disappeared. So, imagine that say airport security personnel had images of those they suspected of doing harm, at least potentially hijacking an airliner and they had reason to suspect that these people were about to carry such an attack out and behold, there they could possibly be drinking coffee and reading a paper at the airport. There are possibly infinite number of scenarios in this regard. The world changed after 9/11 and so did some of our "freedoms" - that's just how it is Brad. I remember chatting to a Ansett 747 check captain after this event and no one had ever thought about hijackers taking over airliners using Stanley knives and using them as they did in 9/11. The protocol and training all involved largely giving into hijackers demands to keep the passengers safe - within reason, but that's what the protocol was. Trying to stay one step ahead of these evil scumbags is no doubt a huge challenge. So is adding one tool to the kit bag that could potentially wrong foot a "event" at a airport such a bad thing when it has the potential to save lives?

[BradG]

"..had images of those who they suspected of doing harm....", you're building a straw man Adam, because the scenario you suggest would have been covered already under the existing law that states police need reasonable suspicion the person has, or is about to commit a crime. I agree with the reasonable suspicion law, if police see a bloke acting weird around a restricted entrance, or they see a known wanted man, then go for it, but that is not what I am opposed to.

I am opposed to this new law that does away with the reasonable suspicion clause. You're not even legally obliged to carry ID in this country, so if you're a good enough liar you could give a false name.