747 production to end in 2020

[tor lives]

Thanks for your contribution Mr Sutter.....there will only ever be one "farther of the 747".
You are one of my aviation heros.
TOR

[Ansett A330]

First of all very sad at the passing of such a legendary and from all accounts a humble and modest person.

Do think though that this "deserved" a "Vale" type thread of it's own.

This statement caught my eye and I was going to let it go through to the 'Keeper but as an Engineer who at various times has had up to two dozen Engineers of various types and levels reporting to me I thought I'd let the month go by before saying something :

Engineers are very often great lateral thinkers - so much so that often the most obvious answer can elude them - the answer cannot be that simple!

Appreciate the heart felt sentiments but to generalise like that is very wide of the mark - particularly in the last 40 or so years. I believe that one of the reasons for diversity in Engineers in this last 40 or so years is that Engineers have come from a much greater range of socio, geographical, and economic backgrounds than previously. We can probably thank Gough for that for making a University Education much more accessible for those who would otherwise not have had the chance. I know I certainly wouldn't have had the chance if these changes not been made when they were.

[tor lives]

First of all very sad at the passing of such a legendary and from all accounts a humble and modest person.

Do think though that this "deserved" a "Vale" type thread of it's own.

So what stopped you??!
TOR

[hrtpaul]

Don't get me started on bloody aeronautical engineers It seems to me that these dudes are really good at drawing stuff on paper but don't really have a clue what an aeroplane actually looks like for real. If they did, they wouldn't design things in the most ridiculous and difficult way possible with absolutely no regards for being able to actually maintain said aircraft in the future. I'm quite happy to show these so called "engineers" exactly what I mean. It would provide me with hours of entertainment watching them try to do some of the jobs I have to do on aircraft they designed. Every aeronautical engineer should have at least some aircraft maintenance experience and not just some fancy uni certificate so they can design an aircraft that has as few stupid ideas as possible. All aircraft suffer from idiot aeronautical engineer syndrome to some extant but some seem to have gone out of their way to be completely stupid with their designs, Piper and Beechcraft (I'm sure there's others) I'm looking at you

[Ansett A330]

Don't get me started on bloody aeronautical engineers

Yeah especially Aeronautical Engineers - go for it Willy!

If they did, they wouldn't design things in the most ridiculous and difficult way possible with absolutely no regards for being able to actually maintain said aircraft in the future.

Actually supports what I was saying as practical Academic content such as "Design for Reliability and Maintainability" have only been included in most courses in the last 30 years or so.

I'm quite happy to show these so called "engineers" exactly what I mean. It would provide me with hours of entertainment watching them try to do some of the jobs I have to do on aircraft they designed. Every aeronautical engineer should have at least some aircraft maintenance experience and not just some fancy uni certificate so they can design an aircraft that has as few stupid ideas as possible.

Just imagine that you would be retired now sitting on a big fat wad of money if you had sold seats to said shows!

[tor lives]

All aircraft suffer from idiot aeronautical engineer syndrome to some extant but some seem to have gone out of their way to be completely stupid with their designs, Piper and Beechcraft (I'm sure there's others) I'm looking at you

Yeah....I remember the techos at 34SQN complaining about the HS-748. From a maintenance perspective she was apparently less than "user friendly" (although I did enjoy flying in her).
And don't get me started about Airbus design philosophy .
TOR

[Adam the Akrodude]

First of all very sad at the passing of such a legendary and from all accounts a humble and modest person.

Do think though that this "deserved" a "Vale" type thread of it's own.

This statement caught my eye and I was going to let it go through to the 'Keeper but as an Engineer who at various times has had up to two dozen Engineers of various types and levels reporting to me I thought I'd let the month go by before saying something :

Engineers are very often great lateral thinkers - so much so that often the most obvious answer can elude them - the answer cannot be that simple!

Appreciate the heart felt sentiments but to generalise like that is very wide of the mark - particularly in the last 40 or so years. I believe that one of the reasons for diversity in Engineers in this last 40 or so years is that Engineers have come from a much greater range of socio, geographical, and economic backgrounds than previously. We can probably thank Gough for that for making a University Education much more accessible for those who would otherwise not have had the chance. I know I certainly wouldn't have had the chance if these changes not been made when they were.

Go right ahead Ansett A330 - fill ya boots and post a separate thread. Of course my comments are a generalisation - you've taken my comment completely literally - perhaps I should have explained that comment better. To me, the greatest engineers have been those that have had the ability to think outside the box - for example, the legend Kelly Johnson. Anyone can and could get the schooling should they wanted prior to Gough or after. I was lucky as my tertiary fees only consisted of student union fees at RMIT. Most of my fathers' generation were not born with silver spoons. My father started as a instrument apprentice with Sperry Instruments in London, did his Nasho's with the RAF as a Inst Fitter, left for Downunder paying his 10 Pounds, became a draftie, went back to school at RMIT back in the late 50's and became a Instro-Eng, later moving up to process control. Many of my father's generation came up through the ranks like this and were excellent engineers as they fully understood their trade because they worked their way up through various trades prior to becoming engineers. Experience, vision and having that certain brain that can come up with solutions out of left field if/when required is what I think makes a great engineer.

This below was designed with rooms full of engineers with slide rules, trig tables with great vision and their lateral thinking caps on - and and other rooms full of drafties!

[Adam the Akrodude]

Don't get me started on bloody aeronautical engineers It seems to me that these dudes are really good at drawing stuff on paper but don't really have a clue what an aeroplane actually looks like for real. If they did, they wouldn't design things in the most ridiculous and difficult way possible with absolutely no regards for being able to actually maintain said aircraft in the future. I'm quite happy to show these so called "engineers" exactly what I mean. It would provide me with hours of entertainment watching them try to do some of the jobs I have to do on aircraft they designed. Every aeronautical engineer should have at least some aircraft maintenance experience and not just some fancy uni certificate so they can design an aircraft that has as few stupid ideas as possible. All aircraft suffer from idiot aeronautical engineer syndrome to some extant but some seem to have gone out of their way to be completely stupid with their designs, Piper and Beechcraft (I'm sure there's others) I'm looking at you

You do make some good points Paul. In the olden days young fella, this used to be the case. Engineers did often work their way up through whatever trades - fitter to draftie to engineer. We don't live in this kind of world any more and just try getting unions to approve pre-graduate engineers working with tools for experience in a plant these days - ain't gonna happen! I've witnessed a lot of mentoring disappear as well with many fantastically experienced engineers taking the redundancy packages, leaving young graduate engineers carrying the can - so that experience is gone. You are being a bit harsh as it wasn't for engineers to design the aeroplane you work on and pilots to wear them out and occasionally bend them, you'd be out of a job mate!

[Adam the Akrodude]

All aircraft suffer from idiot aeronautical engineer syndrome to some extant but some seem to have gone out of their way to be completely stupid with their designs, Piper and Beechcraft (I'm sure there's others) I'm looking at you

Yeah....I remember the techos at 34SQN complaining about the HS-748. From a maintenance perspective she was apparently less than "user friendly" (although I did enjoy flying in her).
And don't get me started about Airbus design philosophy .
TOR

A mate of mine was a gunnie in the RAAF and at one point worked on the Mirage - nightmare he said. The fuselage was so crammed with all sorts of bits n bobs, anything that need replacing or getting to required often extreme dexterity. Hmm, does sound like one of our members here is suffering LAME induced BKS - Bleeding Knuckle Syndrome!

[hrtpaul]

You are being a bit harsh as it wasn't for engineers to design the aeroplane you work on and pilots to wear them out and occasionally bend them, you'd be out of a job mate!

Righto princess. Come up to Mendi with me next week and I'll let you loose on the Comanche if heaven forbid, that piece of shit is still there and we'll see how harsh you think I'm being after you've had a crack at some "marvellous" engineering designs. Once again, you forget that you DON'T fly in the beginning if engineers don't build the aircraft. Pilots ARE last place in the food chain whether ya like it of not.