I case ya don't know....I LOVE VLATs

[Adam the Akrodude]

Can't argue with logic, common sense plus facts. Pretty well every country that is prone to bush fires use these tools as we very well know. With the lack of rain and early heat, this is shaping up to be a bad summer I fear. Thank goodness the "medium & heavy artillery" is in-country!

[RHB785]

Still reckon we should and can afford to buy some of our own. J model Hercs would be just the ticket for this role. Buy some more and make up another squadron that can also be used in the military transport and aid transport roles during the fire off season and continue to lease LATS/VLATS from the US for the fire season. Also buy some CL-415s for use where heavy runways aren't available but lakes and rivers with long reaches are. I can think of a number of areas in western NSW that are a long long way from a heavy runway (Kingsford Smith) but there are plenty of both natural and man made lakes out there and no doubt other members in other states can also think of areas in their states that have similar geography. The CL-415s could also be used for SAR duties in the off seasons or detached from fire fighting duties if needed for SAR duties, maybe backed up by a J model Herc. I wonder if we'll ever see any of our forward looking ideas come to pass. I'm sure other members have other ideas and it would be good to see some of those ideas here in the forum.

Regards,
RHB.

[Adam the Akrodude]

It's such a sorry tale of so many missed opportunities isn't it Ross. The Navy Trackers left to rot, the C-130H's given away to our northern neighbour, etc, etc, etc. So many billions were wasted by the last government - eh, what can ya do!
I would have liked to have seen the Reserve City squadrons get aircraft again - City of Sydney, City of Melbourne at least. It would be great for the RAAF Reserves - a real moral booster and I'm sure they'd be heaps of volunteers. Perhaps a silly amateur pipe dream, I don't know. They would of course need other roles - SAR, other transport, etc.

Perhaps the most economical way is the way they are doing it - leasing/renting aerial fire bombing services? At least these aerial assets are available from the northern hemisphere.

[tor lives]

Don't get me started Ross .
As some on this site will attest, when I raised this issue and put forward my "justification for VLATs/LATs" case on another model site, I was constantly talked down, undermined and belittled. Despite researched and educated statements backed by facts, statistics, and common sense argument, I was basically and constantly told by a few self-appointed "experts" on that site that I was essentially an idiot and didn't know what I was talking about. Indeed, the situation got quiet ridiculous with my posts and threads on this subject regularly locked and deleted. This silliness was actually one of the reasons I started my own model site, where freedom of speech and individual view and opinion is supported, respected, and indeed encouraged.
And all this because I loudly and doggedly advocated, supported, and promoted the concept of VLATs/LATs for Australia.... ironically, a position now taken by the Governments of NSW, VIC, SA, and WA .
TOR

[oz rb fan]

It's such a sorry tale of so many missed opportunities isn't it Ross. The Navy Trackers left to rot, the C-130H's given away to our northern neighbour, etc, etc, etc. So many billions were wasted by the last government - eh, what can ya do!
I would have liked to have seen the Reserve City squadrons get aircraft again - City of Sydney, City of Melbourne at least. It would be great for the RAAF Reserves - a real moral booster and I'm sure they'd be heaps of volunteers. Perhaps a silly amateur pipe dream, I don't know. They would of course need other roles - SAR, other transport, etc.

Perhaps the most economical way is the way they are doing it - leasing/renting aerial fire bombing services? At least these aerial assets are available from the northern hemisphere.

Adam believe me it's not just the last government....they tested a MAFFSsystem in our C130's back in the 80's(a roll in roll out fire fighting system)came to nothing...in 1992 there were a pair of CL215's in Adelaide when the fires hit the dandenongs...they were called over and did some great work.........but the CFA didn't believe in large airtankers........decades wasted to get VLAT's here.

[tor lives]

but the CFA didn't believe in large airtankers........decades wasted to get VLAT's here.

And now the CFA is calling for them
And speaking of lost opportunities....lets not forget the C-130Es and P-3Bs that all went off shore after RAAF retirement .
Let's see what happens with the P-3Cs when they are due to retire.
TOR

[RHB785]

Ray, maybe ordinary citizens like us with a bit of nouse and common sense should lobby for MATS/LATS/VLATS to be purchased or converted after the RAAF are finished with them. I know the Hellenic Air Force and Italian Air force use their CL215s/415s for other things outside the fire season over there so why can't we do the same here. I'm like you Ray, although I've never been pilloried on the net I have been in person on this subject over the last 40 years or so. I think that organizational pride has a lot to do with such things, the old "we can do that, we don't need these fangled things. I remember back on the 1990s and the horrendous fires in central western NSW and the Blue Mountains which finally goaded the NSW RFS into buying new fire trucks, brand new Isuzus to replace the old International Accos they'd got as hand me downs from the Army in the 1970s. I worked on some of these as an auto eleco and they really were clapped out by 1994 and of course then the fires of late '94 struck and they were next to useless, some of them needing to be towed to the fire ground by farmer Brown's tractor becasue the transmissions were shot. It was a hopeless situation and the NSW Government of the time realizewd too late that they should have replaced them years before but the internal politics of the RFS kept saying they were ok. Until the brown stuff hit the rotating cooling device in the corner they might have been. Unfortunately the crap travelled faster than a tractor towed fire truck.

Regrads,
RHB.

[tor lives]

And another lost opportunity.
Here is what we could have done with the ex RAAF/RAN HS-748 fleet.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Macavia- ... a207f7333e
Past governments have been SO short-sighted.....it's nearly criminal.
TOR

[RHB785]

Only nearly criminal Ray?

Regards,
RHB.

[tor lives]

Only nearly criminal Ray?

Regards,
RHB.

Actually you are right Ross. When you consider the major fires, (and associated catastrophic loss of life and property), in and around Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth in the years between say Ash Wednesday and Black Saturday......past State and Federal Government short-sightedness, ineptitude, and lack-of-action where VLAT/LAT procurement is concerned, (especially when opportunity after opportunity presented itself, but was ignored and missed), IS indeed CRIMINAL !!!
Reminds me of the "experts" on that other model site....full of lame-arse reasons (some quiet ridiculous and absurd, lacking in any facts and good science), why we shouldn't get VLATs/LATs while, fire season after fire season in every other major fire-prone country on the planet, VLATs/LATs were proving themselves absolutely indispensable in life and property preservation.
Yep.....as I have repeatedly said to those "experts" on that other model site, don't ever let the facts, statistics, and common sense, (not to mention body count), get in the way of tired, entrenched, senseless, and old fashion argument.
As said in previous posts.....how's that argument looking now boys!!!
TOR