Tragic news from Shoreham air show.

[tor lives]

It appears the mods over at AMI have seen my post over there and removed the thread already. Good work fellows.

Regards,
RHB.

Yeah....those blokes don't muck around. Good to see they are straight on to it.
TOR

[Adam the Akrodude]

I've certainly never meant any disrespect to anyone regarding this post of mine. I do think though due to the very fact that 11 people are now dead and the pilot in a bad way, this event should be discussed and it is in a few other aviation forums and I'm guessing in the UK parliament soon. In relation in particular to this tragedy, these sorts of events should never happen. Of course crashes will continue to happen at airshows - that's the nature of the beast. Either through mechanical issues, weather or pilot error, bird strike, etc, this will continue to happen - plowing into a highway though - nup, not acceptable. This is just not a simple matter of another warbird plowing into the ground at a airshow. Once again though both initial height and the vertical nature of the manoeuvre were contributing factors - seen time and time and time again in relation to warbird and aerobatic aircraft accidents at airshows.

I'm just so sicked by this tragedy, I do think it's high time that the UK and USA think about their warbird operations. The Warbird community here I believe is largely self-regulating and they have done a fantastic job in my opinion. So many chant that airshows here are boring compared to the equivalent shows overseas, but at the end of the day, touch wood we've not experienced a major catastrophe here. Look at how TAM operates it's large fleet of warbirds. At Avalon, they operated nice and high and the routines they presented were pretty safe I thought. TAM's team of pilots are highly experienced ex-RAAF pilots or highly experienced aerobatic pilots (I'm not suggesting the Hunter pilot was not experienced as obviously he was). It just seems to be a combination of very low altitude to start with and looping manoeuvres (going vertical) that get warbird pilots unstuck - the classic error of not starting high enough. Entry speed, G pulled on up line - unknown of course. As examples of not enough G on entry, I've flicked into a inverted spin from not pulling enough G on loop entry - got too slow over the top. Next the world is gyrating whilst I'm hanging in the straps looking at paddocks spin around through the top of the canopy. When first starting aero's, I torque rolled a Super Decath at the top of a loop - once again, not pulling enough G going uphill. One guy I knew screwed up a Avalanche (snap roll at top of loop) in a Yak-50. It took him a lot of altitude to sort out what was going on. Only thing that saved him was plenty of altitude to start with. Even what are classed as fairly simple aerobatic manoeuvres can go easily wrong - my point I guess.

Regardless of the ultimate cause of this catastrophe, if the pilot had started at least say 200' - 300' higher, he would not have hit the trees. If he had started his pull up 1-2 seconds earlier, he would have missed the highway as well, as would have a slight roll in either direction on his down line - IF, IF, IF. All Monday morning "Quarterback" discussion I know. He hit the ground deeply stalled as is evident in the very high nose attitude of the Hunter prior to impact and hit tail first. You can see it wing wobble left and right prior to impact as well.

Maybe it's me, but I just do not think it is disrespectful to discuss and question this awful catastrophe. Apologies if I've offended or upset. I'm mainly venting my spleen as I'm over seeing these sorts of catastrophes. What was an absolute delight to behold became a horrific nightmare. Some updated warbird rules/reg's/procedures at airshows could stop these sorts of events in the future. Of course I am no expert in this and I'm just expressing my amateur my opinion. I just hope something is done to reduce the chances of this happening again. If not, we may see all civvie fast jet and potentially all warbird displays at airshows banned or even uninsurable. Once again my heart goes out to all those who have lost loved ones or have injured family and friends from this catastrophe.

[Adam the Akrodude]

Interesting about the AMI discussion. Was the whole discussion wiped out, or just the offending post?

[RHB785]

Hi Adam. There were only 3 posts in that thread at the time and when I checked back all three had disappeared so I'd say it was the whole thread. There is a new thread going over there now on this subject. One of the boys over at ARC reckons it's a bloke called "Pampa" who changes his name frequently and puts up spam like this to increase the hits on his blog.

Regards,
RHB.

[tor lives]

And another sad piece of news.
Two aircraft of the German formation team "Grasshoppers" collided in mid-air at a Swiss air show in the village of Dittingen, killing one person. Once again condolences to all concerned.
http://news.ge/en/news/story/150120-ger ... ss-airshow
TOR

[Adam the Akrodude]

Could be over 20 fatalities now it's been said.

[oz rb fan]

The UK CAA has put a ban on high energy maneuvers only fly pasts by historic jets till more information is known about the accident, and all hunters are grounded.
a tragic time for the airshow scene worldwide.

[tor lives]

How many Hunters are on the UK civil register????
TOR

[oz rb fan]

Tor.....i got a surprise....there are currently 15(including the accident plane)

[Adam the Akrodude]

Thanks to LSP, here's the link to the initial AAIB report to this crash.

https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/55e993f5ed915d06a100002c/S3-2015_G-BXFI.pdf