Tragic news from Shoreham air show.

[Adam the Akrodude]

Appalling news from the air show at Shoreham, UK today with a Hunter crashing into the adjoining highway (A27) killing 7 and injuring many more. I've watched the video a few times to try to get my head around what went wrong. Of course the UK authorities (AAIB) are conducting a investigation and all will be fully revealed in due course.

It appears the Hunter pulled up into the vertical from quite low, initiated a left roll during the pull up so was 90 degrees off the original heading when inverted, so as to exit the manoeuvre 90 degrees to the right of the original heading - normally this would be a very graceful blended vertical/rolling manoeuvre as part of his display. Appears to me that he started this manoeuvre too low. If he'd had another 100 or so feet, he would have just cleared the trees and road. Another 500 feet it would have been perfectly safe. Other factors - who knows at this stage. It was a warm day so density altitude could have played a part as well on aircraft performance. What works at say 20 deg C, might very well not at 29 deg C.

My opinion has been for a long time is to restrict vertical manoeuvres with high performance warbirds - particularly at smaller air shows. We've all seen this happen time and time again and frankly I'm sick to the base of my stomach seeing this happen again. This appears to have been a very experience pilot - ex-RAF Harrier pilot now airline pilot. So, when this happens to a very experienced pilot, one really then needs to question whether it is right for these sorts of manoeuvres to be carried out at a air show in such a high performance machine. In hindsight, perhaps the A27 should also have been considered part of the crowd line, not to be crossed when doing aerobatic display manoeuvres overhead - transiting yes straight and level or in shallow climb/decent. The awful thing is seeing the Hunter just prior to impact at a very high angle of attack (stick probably full back at this stage) and some wing wobble indicating deep into buffet - perhaps fully stalled and mushing in.

I can only guess now that there will be a shake up of civilian fast jet operations at air shows, given the recent tragedy involving that Gnat as well. My thoughts go out to the families and friends of those people involved in this horrific tragedy. This just should never happen at a air show because it need not happen. It's just so upsetting and disturbing to see this kind of tragedy - at what should be such a fun and joyous event. Very sad day for aviation.

[tor lives]

Very sad indeed!!!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-23/p ... ed/6717768
It has not been a good couple of weeks in the UK.
Just as long as there is a considered, methodical, appropriate, and effective response by authorities, and not silly short-term knee-jerk reactions.
We aerosexuals just love our aeroplanes and the air shows, air races, etc. that showcase them, and it is indeed tragic when events like this occur, (I still remember the absolute horror of the Frecce Tricolori accident at Ramstein and the
Galloping Ghost Mustang crash at Reno ).
My condolences and sympathies to all involved in this most unfortunate accident.
TOR

[Adam the Akrodude]

Hopefully a knee jerk reaction like banning all civvie fast jet op's won't happen. That would be indeed sad. Two fast jet accidents in recent times really does not help the cause at all. Both accidents involved very low high G manoeuvres (one horizontal, the other vertical). I think vertical manoeuvres (looping figures) should be banned at smaller events at least for these very high performance civilian operated jet aircraft. Military fast jet pilots get to practice several times per week - working up to the air show season probably practicing the sequence a few times per day. The same cannot be said for civvie fast jet operations due to the immense cost of operations. So, to minimise the risk, the routine should be simplified. A fast jet routine can be very exciting without making it overly risky - for instance very fast low altitude passes, pull up to 45 degrees, wingover and repeat - lots of noise and keeps the photographers happy as the aeroplane is low - but safe. Why do we as spectators need to see looping manoeuvres by these very fast aeroplanes? They end up being too high to take decent pic's of. Throw in a simple aileron roll instead, which is not event classed as a aerobatic manoeuvre (no Aresti figure for a aileron roll) and involves no G. Doesn't even have to be a slow roll (a aerobatic manoeuvre), which is more complex.
At large airfields/events where there is far less chance of crowd overflight it would be far less risky from a crowd perspective for vertical manoeuvres in civvie fast jets. Think of Avalon for instance - huge runway with the western side clear of crowds - very easy too for aircrew to align themselves and keep away from the crowd line. One US Super Hornet demo pilot did get a wrap over the knuckles for crossing the crowd line at Avalon a few years ago though. There are no aerobatic manoeuvres over the highway at Avalon as was the case with Shoreham. So, the venue itself should dictate what can and cannot be performed safely. The pilots themselves know how much airspace their routine takes. So, the routine must be designed to safely fit into the airspace assigned around the airfield itself - so there is no chance of overflying crowds, built up areas, etc. Minimum heights for entering vertical manoeuvres must be laid down and enforced. Bust your low level waiver and you loose your display endorsement until re-qualifying. That Gnat display team had a low level incident just before that fatal crash - why were they not grounded until the causes/reasons for this investigated? It should be - no air show displays until it can be proven that you are in fact safe to conduct your display.

Just how many times do we have to witness a very high performance civvie operated aeroplane enter the vertical from too low and slam into the ground? The UK government will be hounded now by the anti-airshow/anti-airfield lobby groups chanting "See - we told you so!". Let's hope any response/reaction by the UK government is indeed measured and does result in fewer accidents and fatalities. This accident is just horrific and something just has to change.

[Cap'n Wannabe]

If it happened here, you can bet we'd see yet another regulation that starts with "A pilot commits an offence...." and ends with "strict liability."

[RHB785]

My sentiments exactly. A very sad day for the aviation community and in particular a very sad fortnight or so for the UK aviation community. My own 2c worth is that pilots are human and perhaps under the pressure of a crowd or perhaps the press or their own ego, they make silly mistakes. Having said all that, there is still no excuse for not doing it right, because at fast jet speeds you only get one chance down close to the ground and if you blow that chance there's likely to be tears.

Regards,
RHB.

[oz rb fan]

ive been following this on 2 uk based forums plus facebook for the last 20 hours or so...i can only reiterate what Adam has said...it's shouldn't have happened...but there may yet be an aircraft failure of some sort come through...some people on some of the uk forums think there may have been a failure of some sort as from head on the engine seemed fairly quiet (as Adam has said to me it did seem fairly slow at the top of the "loop")....and in my eyes not just to low but TO tight as well.
My prayer are for the families of all involved but especially those on the ground.......they weren't even at an airshow where things can go wrong.......and in some stupid way thank god they had set up a temporary set of traffic lights there....if some of the cars werent stopped and traveling at the regulated 70mph this would have been much worse.

[Nillus]

So, he summons all the skill, judgement, lessons from old hands, and hours of diligent practice honing his craft.
For whatever the reason, he could not save himself, his aeroplane or the innocents below.

Show some respect, people.

[RHB785]

I can't see any disrespect in any of the above posts Nilus. I know about silly mistakes in the air having made one that was potentially fatal in its possible outcome in a Decathlon many years ago so certainly no disrespect from me or indeed any of the other posters in this thread, just a couple of hard cold facts about display flying. There is also a theory in other forums that there may have been some kind of mechanical failure as some people are of the opinion that the engine didn't sound right at the top of the loop and he appeared not to have enough speed on for the manouvre. I believe we are merely saying that we are all human and have human frailties.

On another note there is a post on this subject over at AMI by a person calling himself Johnniewc68 claiming to have a link to a new just released video of this sad event. It's spam, nothing more than straight out disrespectful spam showing no video of anything and only photos of Brasilian aircraft, mostly airliners but with a couple of military types as well. I've already asked the mods over there to remove it as soon as they see it and put up a warning over at ARC as well. If he posts here could tor, Adam or Andrew Doppel please remove the post as soon as one of you fellows sees it. Is it possible to have a direct reporting system here? Just a thought to help deal with such things.

[tor lives]

I have thoroughly read through all posts on this thread and I am comfortable that there is certainly no example of demonstrated disrespect or malice by any A/CAM member, intended or otherwise, directed towards the pilot or any others involved with this tragic event, (if there were such a post, all here can rest assured that it would be removed in a heartbeat).
Ross, thanks for "heads up" on the spammer over on AMI, we will keep an eye out for him here. Direct reporting is normally available through the "contact us" tab, however this tab is currently inactive. So until such times as all tabs are reactivated feel free to PM any Site Administrator should you need to.
TOR

[RHB785]

It appears the mods over at AMI have seen my post over there and removed the thread already. Good work fellows.

Regards,
RHB.