F-35 - Debunking the critics

[Adam the Akrodude]

Back in January, there appeared a report that the F-35 was outflown by a F-16. The fact of the mater was that this was a test flight using the No.2 test bird which has no stealth coating and limited control authority. The whole point of this test was to find and push AoA limits - it was no "dogfight" at all. Anyhow, a senior F-35 instructor pilot from Norway has written a fascinating article comparing the F-16 and F-35 from a BFM perspective. The nature of aerial warfare has changed over the years and the last time a US fighter actually fired it's gun in protest at another fighter was 40+ years ago. The F-35 has recently done very well in a Green Flag exercise in USA with no F-35s "shot down" and it providing the CAS required for the troops on the ground.

Anyway, for anyone interested, here's the report.

http://theaviationist.com/2016/03/01/heres-what-ive-learned-so-far-dogfighting-in-the-f-35-a-jsf-pilot-first-hand-account/

[Graeme H]

I can appreciate your passion on the subject, but sorry Adam, we have this discussion going on AMI and Britmodeler as well, don't see the need to start another here.

I realize I can just ignore this whole thing and not comment, but sorry feel moved to say something.

[Knotty]

I for one don't visit either of those sites , so I think it is appropriate on here . Very interesting Adam .
Thanks for posting .

[Adam the Akrodude]

No worries Graeme, respect your views, but must reply in turn.

This is not AMI or Britmodeller - two modelling sites I do not frequent.

Love, hate or be completely indifferent about the F-35, it is the biggest defence program currently in Australia. It employs thousands of Aussies in both civil and military capacity - in component manufacture, in the RAAF, in the millions of dollars being spent on base upgrades, etc. The F-35 is very newsworthy and a whole lot of shit has been poured on this amazing aircraft and I feel it is my right to report on it how I see fit. If I post anything that is unsupported, unfounded, etc I'm more than prepared to stand corrected. I feel this program is very news worthy as we're all paying for it with our taxes.

Of course I respect your view that this may not be of interest to you, but it may be to others. Troy I know is interested in the F-35 as is Andrew who has built a fantastic model of the F-35. HRT Paul and Shaun (Mr Squirrelpotumus!) I'm pretty sure aren't! The article itself is very interesting I think and I wanted to share for anyone else potentially interested. The controversy alone with this program I find fascinating as well. It is a big news story and I think very worthy of posting here at A/CAM.

Cheers

Adam

[tor lives]

OK, let me make it perfectly clear.....quiet frankly I don't give a rats arse what is being discussed or posted on AMI, Britmodeller, or indeed any other model site. A/CAM was established on the foundation principles of the right to personal view and opinion and freedom of speech. Every A/CAM member has the right to express his/her views and opinions on any subject they choose, (after all, it is NOT ADF Mess Rules here ), as long as it is in keeping with the A/CAM Code of Conduct. We do not censor, discourage, edit or delete posts just because we don't like or are not interested in the subject matter being discussed. Many of us are indeed on this site as a direct result of past exposure to that kind of draconian, authoritarian "moderation" on other sites. As pointed out, many of us now only visit and participate in this site and no others. To that end what is being discussed on other sites is duly noted but totally irrelevant.
This being the case Adam's F-35 thread is MOST appropriate and relevant for this Forum. Indeed, as an aerosexual and tax payer, I found the article he posted most interesting and educational, (and as Knotty said, thanks for posting Adam). So, my advice to all A/CAMers is if you do not like or are not interested in a a given thread.......ignore it.
As site owner this is my position on this issue, and I hope it is crystal clear to all.
TOR

[Tony P]

and it's all over facebook and to be honest I'm sick of reading about it. There are only a handful of people who actually know what this craft can a cannot do and that's the engineers at Lockheed Martin, the pilots who pilot it and the Chinese. One thing I can be sure of is this will be the reaction of both camps once you see one at an airshow:



Which I'll hope to be doing in June.

[tor lives]

Looks like the poor bloke spilt his coffee..... well at least that's what the photo looks like to me.
TOR

[F-27pax]

I don't have anything to add to the F-35 debate because I don't think we will know the full capabilities (or lack thereof) of the F-35 until it gets into a serious hot war. I just hope that it isn't an aeroplane designed to fight the previous war rather than the coming one. And I hope we don't end up in the same situation as we did in 1942 when RAAF aircrew signalled "Nos Morituri Te Salutamus" before they flew off to fight Zekes in Wirraways.

Leigh

[Adam the Akrodude]

Tony that picture is an absolute riot! I hope that is not me at a future Avalon. When we all here that 43,000 Ib P&W engine light up for the first time, there could be issues! I cannot confirm or deny any physical reactions I had when watching the F-22 do backflips, tail-slides, flat turns, etc at Avalon in years past. Like you I am sick to the back teeth of people calling it a P.O.S which it already is proving itself not to be. The ABC in particular has been just how bad its biased reporting is in this regard. Like critics of the F-111 and F-18 programs, these people will slowly drift away into the background noise.

Leigh I think the complete opposite is now true in regard to the RAAF. Our air force is the regional "super power" with only Singapore coming close and we're real tight with our friends and neighbours there. China's 5th Gen fighter program appears to be in a mess. China is having major issues with engine development - so much so that they have ordered Su-35s from Russia to fill in the current "gap". The PLAAF does not appear to be too interested in the J-31, though this may change some time in the future. The builders of the J-31 are hoping for export interest to keep this program alive. China's huge J-20 in in it's infancy and really must be regarded as a semi-stealthy missile truck. It looks more like a stealthy MiG-25 type affair - part interceptor and part launch platform for anti-ship missiles to range out over the East and South East China Seas. Russia looks to be having major economic difficulties and has only ordered 12 T-50's (PAK FA) 5th Gen fighters to be delivered by 2020. There will be hundreds of F-35s by then flying. The West has a massive advantage now when compared to Russia and China. NATO is much larger now as well. The aerial warfare "rule book" is being re-written around what the F-22 and now the F-35 can do. The UK Government and RAF have recognised just what the F-35 can offer and have ordered 138. Surely if the Typhoon was superior (it's only now getting a AESA radar), the Brits would just buy the F-35 for the two carriers. I wonder what Germany and France will now do, as they have no 5th or 6th gen fighter programs on the horizon. The gestation period of the Typhoon was horrendously long - making it out of date in some respects by the time it got into service. What will these two air forces replace their Rafales and Typhoons with in say 20 odd years time? Spain is in the same boat too. Hmmm.

Here's a good link to how the F-35 faired at a recent Green Flag exercise.

http://theaviationist.com/2015/07/01/f-35s-role-in-green-flag/

[hrtpaul]

Continue to be sick to the back teeth old boy and I'm pretty sure I WON'T drift into background noise ever. Guarantee it LOL So on one hand you say we aren't to believe anything negative about the shitbox but on the other hand we are to believe all the negative stuff around about the Chinese? You gotta be kidding me right? You can't have it both ways mate. Man you're more one eyed than I am about Holden v ford