In case anyone is interested

[_BlackHawk_]

Ok 1999, I didn't know of that one. Guns will always be on aircraft and if they are taken off, the lesson will have to be learned once again during the next knock down, drag'em out air combat.

[tor lives]

Ok 1999, I didn't know of that one. Guns will always be on aircraft and if they are taken off, the lesson will have to be learned once again during the next knock down, drag'em out air combat.

Nahhhh, don't agree Brad....bit of wishful thinking on your part I think. We are getting to the point where aircraft won't even need pilots much less guns. "knock down, drag'em out air combat " is now nothing but a quant part of aviation history.
Major wars have been raging since the 1st year of this centaury and quiet frankly air combat has not featured in any of em.
TOR

[Adam the Akrodude]

I thought this topic was about a 1/48 Zivko Edge 540???

Brad, you love your stats. Show us A/A gun kills vs missile kills over the last 30 years. Your thinking is so last century man! I'm not saying a gun should not be there, must be great fun shooting at towed banners! Just saying what weapon systems actually have been doing the bulk of the "work" for a long time.

[Adam the Akrodude]

Lotta money going into UCAV and laser weapons as well. Lasers are getting smaller and more powerful. F-35 may use one in the future?

[oz rb fan]

There hasn't really been a lot in the way of air to air combat since the Gulf War. I'll grant you that missiles have gotten better since the early days, but as USAF pilot Larry Pitts said "they're called missiles, not hittiles" after he had to fire 3 at an Iraqi Mig 25. Looking at the IDF since the Vietnam War, they have used the gun quite a bit. One IDF pilot in an F-16 scored 3 kills with the 20mm in a day (11th June 1982). Iran also have numerous kills via 20mm.

Kuwait claimed 3 helicopter kills via A-4K 20mm fire during the Gulf War and an A-10 pilot made a mess of a MIL-8 with his 30mm.

and another A10 evaporated a chopper with a lazer guided bomb!!!

[tor lives]

So did ya win it Damo????
TOR

[Cap'n Wannabe]

'Fraid not, Ray...it ended at about 3am, so I couldn't stay up to put in that last minute winning bid..

[tor lives]

'Fraid not, Ray...it ended at about 3am, so I couldn't stay up to put in that last minute winning bid..

Bugger!!! well I have one in the stash and if I ever decide to off-load I will give you first crack at it.
TOR

[Adam the Akrodude]

There hasn't really been a lot in the way of air to air combat since the Gulf War. I'll grant you that missiles have gotten better since the early days, but as USAF pilot Larry Pitts said "they're called missiles, not hittiles" after he had to fire 3 at an Iraqi Mig 25. Looking at the IDF since the Vietnam War, they have used the gun quite a bit. One IDF pilot in an F-16 scored 3 kills with the 20mm in a day (11th June 1982). Iran also have numerous kills via 20mm.

Kuwait claimed 3 helicopter kills via A-4K 20mm fire during the Gulf War and an A-10 pilot made a mess of a MIL-8 with his 30mm.

and another A10 evaporated a chopper with a lazer guided bomb!!!

Thought it was a Mud Hen that did that?

[_BlackHawk_]

I thought this topic was about a 1/48 Zivko Edge 540???

Brad, you love your stats. Show us A/A gun kills vs missile kills over the last 30 years. Your thinking is so last century man! I'm not saying a gun should not be there, must be great fun shooting at towed banners! Just saying what weapon systems actually have been doing the bulk of the "work" for a long time.

Rboz - it was an F-15E not an A-10. He dropped a GBU-10 on a Hughes 500....messy.

Adam it's not actually about stats. It's about having the appropriate weapons to use when needed; ie long range, short range and point blank. Same as any infantryman having a rifle, pistol and bayonet. Missiles can always be defeated or decoyed. Ignore the lessons of history at your own peril.