Bronco in action in Syria

[Adam the Akrodude]

I know this is a little outside the general interest of this group, but I think a interesting development nonetheless - particularly since many Bronco's have been pressed into other roles since leaving military service (fire FAC'ing as one example).

I read this morning that two Bronco's have been used in action in Syria as a trial recently. This I find amazing as the type has been out of military use for some time. A little known fact is that Cessna 337s (O-2s) have been in use for some time over Iraq working directly for the CIA. One ex-105 pilot I corresponded with some time ago flew 337s in the role over Iraq and he said they were way more efficient than drones. The reason is drones have such a narrow field of view and it is very common for drones to fly directly over a target and not see it. The whole "human" element works better as the human eye can just pick up subtle changes in a environment - something very difficult for drone operators to do half a world away in their air conditioned offices. The 337 teams lived on the same base as the "client" as well and this provided a much better working relationship. So, this trial of re-furbed Broncos in Syria suggests to me there is a short fall in performance/capability with certain drone ISR operations over in the "Great Sandpit". Perhaps when the USAF is unable to provide the required support for agencies like the CIA, they just go ahead and sort out their own solution to the task.

Is the USAF looking at developing a light ISR/light CAS aircraft I wonder? It could be argued that even the A-10 with the mighty GAU-8 is a overkill to taking out insurgents on motorbikes, hiding in trees, etc. The USAF has traditionally abhorred light special purpose aircraft - yet when required in the field, always seems to have to re-invent the wheel in this regard (A-1 "SPAD", A-37, F-5, OV-10). The A-10 has found a niche to prolong its survival morphing from tank killer to dedicated insurgent killer. Whilst only flying a fraction of CAS missions, it nonetheless is providing a very special service to troops in contact. The F-35 is going to do most jobs it's tasked with very well. Those jobs that require getting down in the mud and dust I can't see it doing quite as well as prior specialist aircraft that get down in the weeds to do their job, however dangerous this is. The F-35 I just cannot see getting down low - it's just way way too valuable to task taking out low value targets at elevated risk. Combat SAR is another thing the Hog pilots specialise in, requiring low level op's.

I just find it fascinating that regardless of all this new high tech, there are just some jobs where it appears you cannot beat the Mk.1 eyeball.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/09/why-is-america-using-these-antique-planes-to-fight-isis.html?via=mobile&source=email

[Tony P]

No need to develop anything.

[Tony P]

and this

[Adam the Akrodude]

Yeah, now about this and it's a great idea. This is really a COIN/LAS type affair. I'm talking about a ISR/Observation type with light attack capabilities - much like a updated Bronco. This type needs to be able to operate in fairly permissive environments but still be able to withstand hits from say 12.7 AAA - mainly operate above 5000'-6000' out of small arms range. The Afghans have been given those Super Tucano's, but these are not dedicated for battlefield ISR work - more COIN/LAS work.

I guess my point is that drones for observation work do not appear to be the answer entirely, hence Cessna 337s in use in Iraq and this trial of re-furbed Bronco's in Syria. It's very much like Vietnam all over again where the big assets for fighting WW3 are just too expensive for fighting these insurgent/guerrilla style wars. If not for this mess over there, the A-10 would be gone from the USAF inventory.

Love the bolt on armour plate on these A-29s!

[Adam the Akrodude]

The Scorpion seems a great idea to me as it is being promoted to do both light strike and ISR work. It looks to be bloody cheap to operate too at $3K per flight hour.

I think this little Scorpion is pretty cool - perhaps the best potential combination of light strike and ISR in one package. Almost seems too good to be true for a small air force (RNZAF?). The jet does seem more on the light strike role than dedicated ISR platform, which is where I was heading with the post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textron_AirLand_Scorpion

[oz rb fan]

well beoing did try and sell the super bronco....OV10 X
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/i ... ic=14620.0


but the ones in Afghanistan are upgraded OV10 g's
http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stor ... abilities/

nice little beasts

[Adam the Akrodude]

well beoing did try and sell the super bronco....OV10 X
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/i ... ic=14620.0


but the ones in Afghanistan are upgraded OV10 g's
http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stor ... abilities/

nice little beasts

Has to be these that are being used in Syria - fascinating. Very cool using the "Black Pony" symbol - used by U.S Marine Broncos used in Sth Vietnam. I do find it cool when old assets are dusted off and used again - like the A-1, A-26K and now possibly the OV-10.

The origin "Combat Dragon" program was for introducing the A-37 into S.E.Asia - interesting how history repeats itself. The USAF does not like this job - they want to blow major stuff up - not take out insurgents toting AK-47s and RPGs riding bicycles. Very interesting that this appears to be Navy funded too and pretty well off the books as much as possible. McCain does not seem impressed! I've enormous respect for McCain. He has though just accepted that the F-22 can do amazing work outside of its air dominance role. We joke, laugh, cry about our politics here - it's nothing compared to ol' USA is it!

[tor lives]

I do find it cool when old assets are dusted off and used again - like the A-1, A-26K and now possibly the OV-10.

And lets' not forget the big, ol, bad-arse Buff......the bomber that just keeps on giving
TOR

[Adam the Akrodude]

I do find it cool when old assets are dusted off and used again - like the A-1, A-26K and now possibly the OV-10.

And lets' not forget the big, ol, bad-arse Buff......the bomber that just keeps on giving
TOR

Yep - the ol' BUFF will keep on dispensing "Freedom" for a long time to come - perhaps even after we are dust! Hey, have you seen the news regarding the B-21 (a up-sized B-2)? NG have been awarded the contract to build 100 of them. Afraid it's all over Rover bad guys - there is simply no stopping these bombers. NG are looking for a name - anyone with any suggestions?

"Valkyrie" and "Wraith" have been mentioned as fav's so far. I very much like Valkyrie having Viking ancestry!

[Tony P]

"Trump".