He STILL doesn't get it!!!

[tor lives]

I am just watching this discussion unfold over and AMI:
http://www.aussiemodeller.com.au/forum/ ... =6&t=11393
.....and to my absolute astonishment the resident self-proclaimed "expert" apparently STILL doesn't get it where LATs/VLATs in Australia are concerned. He constantly reminds everyone what an expert and experienced specialist he is in the field of Airborne/Aviation fire-fighting (and clearly remains a firm detractor and critic of LATs), yet he seems oblivious and completely ignorant to the fact that he is now routinely surrounded by LATs/VLATs doing some excellent work in this country. Your argument is well and truly lost good Sir, and you now very much represent a minority view on this issue.
You might want to ask those who have directly benefited from the local LAT/VLAT presence, (including the CFA), if they agree with you.
TOR
PS: A CL-415 is NOT a Flying Boat and constantly demonstrates it's absolute fire-fighting versatility and adapatability in most other fire-prone countries around the world year in and year out.

Footnote: it would appear certain posts have just now been deleted from the AMI thread in question, (perhaps the individual realised the basic folly and silliness of his argument) ....but just to give some context..... there was unfounded and really quiet ridiculous criticism of the CL-415 being used in Australian conditions, (effectively, the same old arguments).

[oz rb fan]

you dont think he'll admit he was wrong............the CL415 is one of the most versatile systems out there.......after watching the CL215 hitting the dandenongs back in the early 90's and nothing done then you dont expect things to change about them do you.

i have a mate who has a buy water bomber's for Australia page on facebook,he's nuts for the beriev BE 200 .
https://www.facebook.com/bubauspage/?fref=ts

[tor lives]

you dont think he'll admit he was wrong

Never.....even though his anti LAT/VLAT argument has been well and truly lost, and he is now very much a minority in his view, (just have a look at how many LATs/VLATs are in Australia at the moment), it will be a cold day in hell before he ever admits he got this wrong.
TOR

[tor lives]

I was just reading with much interest that, following an absolutely disastrous fire week in WA, senior WA fire officials are now calling for "the same level of Large Airborne Fire Tanker support that is currently being enjoyed by NSW and VIC". They now want their own WA-based LAT/VLAT fleet in place in future, as they frustratingly could not take-up the offer of the East Coast-based VLATs/LATs due to the transit distances involved, and lack of locally-available logistical support for the these aircraft once they arrived in Perth. Lesson learnt the hard way I guess . One WA Senior Fire Official was quoted as saying "One VLAT DC-10 could have been a big help this week". No surprise there, but a bit different to what is being reported on the other site

These Large Air Tankers are apparently of "little use".....that's why there is currently two C-130s , a BAe-146 and a DC-10 in country, in almost constant use
TOR

[tor lives]

Direct Quote from David Edwards on AMI
I did post an earlier reply but deleted it after being advised by that it was providing considerable entertainment on a forum operated by a banned AMI member. I suggest to the members of that forum who also post here that joining in the disparaging remarks posted there is poor form and that they reconsider their membership of AMI before I do so for them. And for the benefit of the aforementioned banned AMI member, I'm no expert - self appointed or otherwise. I have however spent a decent amount of time working for people who are, sufficient to trust their expertise completely.

So.....a direct threat from an AMI administrator who thinks he is in a position to influence the views and opinions expressed by A/CAMers on MY site. This is NOT AMI David, and you have well and truly exceeded your influence, boundaries, and authority so BACK OFF. If you have an issue with me you take it up with me, and please reframe from threatening my members. On this site freedom of speech is not only allowed but encouraged, (without threat of banning, inferred or otherwise).
A/CAM and AMI share many members David, so this is NOT helpful for our co-existence and positive relationship. Speaking of "poor form", your conduct in this instance is very disappointing indeed. If I were David Harvey I would be very seriously considering your future as a AMI forum moderator/administrator if this is how you represent him, the AMI brand, and that site as a whole.....and if I were an AMI sponsor I would be equally unimpressed.
TOR

[Tony P]

Haven't we moved on from this yet? I must say it's a little bit embarrassing seeing grown men behaving this way and it's getting old.

[tor lives]

Haven't we moved on from this yet? I must say it's a little bit embarrassing seeing grown men behaving this way and it's getting old.

Well....essentially I agree with you Tony, but please understand, I will not stand by and see A/CAM members threatened with an AMI ban because they dare express an opinion on this site.....where the hell is that coming from???. I would NEVER do that to an AMI member on this site, and I will not accept it from this AMI administrator.
TOR

[tor lives]

Please see below the statement from David Harvey, owner of AMI

It is disappointing to say the least that this sniping is still going on after all this time. I have no problems with discussions as long as they are civil, as all posts here have been. Unfortunately the ongoing grudge against AMI still festers with posts being copied from here and placed on ACAM in an attempt to snipe at individuals, moderators and the board in general.

While I have now banned the username being used to foment trouble it is unfortunately a part of life that I will be unable to ensure that the the individual involved does not sign up under another name to do the same thing again.

The VLAT topic has always caused heated discussion from members of AMI and, as I said earlier, I have no problem with that in the slightest - as long as it does not get personal or abusive. Thankfully those in this discussion have kept it polite unfortunately it was brought down by outside factors.

Keep posting your opinions on this and other

My public and open right of response to David Harvey,
There is not now nor has there ever been a "grudge" against AMI, that's just silly to suggest, and indeed a little offensive.
Many, many, times I and others on this site, and indeed on other forums and at modelling events etc have actively promoted and supported your site David. As mentioned, we share many members which, like it or not, forms a sort of bond between our two sites. As you will recall, we have indeed extended the hand of assistance to one and other, as site owners, on a number of occasions.
I have absolute respect for AMI, and for your efforts in maintaining what I consider to be one of the premier modelling sites on the Net. This is why you appear on our "Links" page.
There is no doubt however, that I am not impressed that one of your administrators tried to "censor" A/CAM members by inferring threats of AMI ban if they commented on this forum. That is unacceptable to me. I am sure you can appreciate that as a fellow site owner.
Now, I hope we can get beyond this and continue to maintain a civil and professional relationship between ourselves and our two sites.
Finally, let me make it perfectly and publically clear.....I have NO beef with you or AMI David, and I want all to know that.
TOR, owner of A/CAM

[tor lives]

From David Edwards

Which is ironic as I'm reliably informed that much of the subject matter on that forum consists of links to topics of interest on AMI. Go figure

Makes perfect sense to me.
As said David....weather you like it or not, A/CAM and AMI are inextricably linked because they share a large membership base with common interests between them. AMI is a good site that provides much interesting information and subject matter for A/CAM members. There are no issues between the two sites. The issue is clearly between you, me, and VLAT/LAT debate and, quiet frankly, I don't think we will ever see eye-to-eye on this.
I do agree with Tony though, this has gone on long enough and for the good of our respective sites, it may be time to put this issue to rest and move on. The VLATS/LATs are here now an doing a great job, and that's really all I ever wanted.
TOR

[tor lives]

Intersting quote
It's worth noting that firefighting aircraft don't extinguish fires

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZkV64GJihA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8CML8ol8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtxiOkkqk2M

OK then
TOR