Falklands War Chit Chat

[tor lives]

Some Good Falklands Air War references:















Good Falklands WIF material


Ray

[Tony P]

Some Good Falklands Air War references:

Nice collection Ray. Is it just me or is this guy having second thoughts?

[Adam the Akrodude]

Some Good Falklands Air War references:

Nice collection Ray. Is it just me or is this guy having second thoughts?

The fear those Argi pilots must have had to deal with would have been considerable - particularly the Skyhawk, Mirage and Dagger drivers. When you look at the numbers, the Brits took out something like 1/3 of their strike assets. The odds of survival for repeated missions would have been pretty low. You could not give yourself a better than 50:50 chance of survival per mission.

I bow low in deep respect of those Argi drivers - they did a amazing job.

[hrtpaul]

I think you'll find had the Poms lost a carrier, they woulda been screwed totally. The Poms needed every SHAR they could get and being 1 carrier down I guarantee they woulda had to retreat and think of some other way of getting the Islands back. If the Junta had of waited (which they realistically couldn't) a few months, the Poms would have got rid of the Invincible (IIRC) and there's no way the Poms coulda gone down south with just 1 carrier. The Poms also made some huge f^%$ ups like positioning their picket ships inside Falkland sound where they were practically blind, unable to use their systems to their fullest potential. If they had of chucked a few picket ships to the west of West Falkland they would have been able to spot the incoming aircraft even at low altitude. And in spotting said bogeys, able to warn other ships in Falkland Sound. The Sheffield's main radar was offline when it got hit to make a call to the UK. And just for some added spice, how about we unload our ground troops in the wrong spot anddo it in broad daylight. WTF???? While the Argies probably wouldn't have won the war anyway given the reasons stated by others, like I said if they had of taken 1 of the carriers out the Poms would have lost that particular battle no question. It was lucky the SAS took out those Pucaras as well. They're a nasty piece of work if you happen to be a grunt. Also if the Argies were able to base jets on the islands, there's no way the Poms woulda got so close to the islands as they did. Mistakes were made on both sides but I believe that it was a much closer run thing than many think. I've looked into getting there to have a look but it's freakin expensive and I don't like the idea of having to travel to/through South America to get there. And I'm not swimming.

[tor lives]

I still maintain that had the UK lost a carrier, (thereby potentially losing the war), a "USS Whatever", (very probably a Tarawa class carrier....."USS Saipan" perhaps), would have very quickly been re-flagged and become a "HMS Whatever " ("HMS Port Stanley" perhaps) for the duration of the war.
Ray

[Adam the Akrodude]

Ah! A good meaty discussion - just like the ol' days except no trolls - bonus!

Keep in mind Paul a carrier is not easy to sink. It would of taken multiple Exocet hits to sink either carrier. The Forrestal had that horrific fire with missiles and bombs going off, yet still survived. The carriers were well out to the north east weren't they anyway? I too thought that all those frigates in the Sound was pretty risky stuff - guess they had their reasons at the time. I guess the tactic at the time was to put certain "expendable" assets in certain locations so as to make more valuable assets harder to hit, anti air over the landing as well. Still can't have been nice being sitting ducks as they were. A bit like the RN Sea Kings that transmit to make themselves look like bigger targets. It took some cojones flying those as well!
Once troops were landed, it was end of story for the Argies. They would all have starved and ran out of ammo anyway - no supplies getting in at all.

The Brits were never going to loose - Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves....(well, they used to anyway!).

[hrtpaul]

You don't have to sink a carrier to make it inoperable and hence take it out of the war. Correct about the Forrestal but it did have to leave the area for major repairs and therefore was out the war. Even if the yanks were to give the poms a carrier, it would've taking a month or 2 till it could be of any use at all. That's a rather long time to get reinforcements flown in. As to the Argy fighting man. We must not forget that most of them were ill trained conscripts and not really enthused about being there for starters. With this in mind, it's a miracle they achieved as much as they did against the UK forces. And as for the carriers being out of harms way, tell that to the crew of the Atlantic Conveyor that wasn't all that far from the carrier task force. I reckon they'd see that a little differently. They wouldn't have had to risk the picket ships if they had landed the ground forces where they were supposed to at the time they were supposed to. Hey I'm all for the Poms winning, but all the sentimental crap aside the thing is the Poms were lucky. There's no question. Another mistake the Argies made was going for the warships. Had they targeted the merchant/supply/troop ships and sunk/damaged a few of them then yet again the Poms woulda been in a rather big spot of bother. Thankfully they didn't cos the loss of life woulda been huge and I'm not sure the Pommy public would've accepted it. They probably woulda called for Maggie to level the Argy capital, cue large loss of life again.

[Adam the Akrodude]

Agreed on the carrier damage issue Paul. I think the main issue is that once British troops landed, it was all over for the Argies. Yes, hypothetically had either Hermes or Invincible been hit by an Exocet, there would have been a good chance it having to withdraw. Perhaps some Harriers could have transferred to the other carrier, but all this is hypothetical as mentioned.
Luck certainly has a part in this victory as has been the case many times in history. The trick is to work the odds in your favour to help "make your luck".
The Junta massively underestimated the British response. Not the first time this has happened in history. Just no way the Brit's could of tolerated failure in this case - no way. Maggie would have employed other military options if need be.
As mentioned by Salty and in relation to the Atlantic Conveyor, the French will always do what is in their best interest, not what you'd call a nation that you could rely on for support. The Argies only had limited Exocet rounds didn't they? Still, they did very well and major lessons learnt by the RN in particular I think.

[Adam the Akrodude]

All this Falklands talk has me wanting to build a SHAR from that time. A friend of the family flew them after transferring to the RN when Bob Hawke scuttled the fixed wing FAA here. He left our shores along with many of this country's highly experienced FAA personnel.
They used to cruise down the US east coast picking fights with various US units along the way. Their toughest opponents were the US Marines he advised. One of the toughest jets to dogfight he said was the Hawk in dissimilar eyeball to eyeball combat down at the range in Sardinia - a wicked little opponent.

[hrtpaul]

I'll have my first SHAR at expo with quite a few more to do in various schemes. Not to mention all the other Harriers of other versions as well. I think there might be an Argy Dagger next in the cue. I have a few HPM kits and the good thing with these kits is all the versions (including the IIIO) are in the 1 box. I really should sort of some more shelf space before too long LOL